THE SCIENCE TOPIC WE HAVE ONE TOO!!

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Many people argue that the universe and it's laws of physics to me are so perfect, there must be a creator. (Damn theists! lol) I like to think of this way. Just like chemistry, laws can be unstable towards each other.

This is the major misconception that I slam in the face of theists. The laws of physics are not perfectly designed for US, WE are adapted for it. It is my belief that however the hell the Universe could have developed differently ; that life would adapt to it in a similar manner.

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In the beginning of the Universe (if that even exists, if we are talking about a space-time contiuum, the universe would be a recurring and infinite thing) there were all kinds of physics laws. Some of these were unstable and collapsed, forming a new law. Thus leading to a universe with only stable (and 'logical') laws.

It has not been physically confirmed, but scientists (including myself) are 100% sure the Universe had a beginning. Look at the math dealing with the big bang. This kind of touches on what you were trying to say. In the singularity before the big bang, time ran in random directions. And what is the opposite of turning into a black hole? Inverting yourself. One may say that it is an explosion, hence the name big bang. But we now believe that the big bang was time traveling backwards in the singularity which caused the blackhole to go back to the point before it became a black hole and the matter called dark matter intervened and prevented the Universe form recollapsing. And dark energy has been expanding the Universe ever since (in theory)

What you are getting at is the "genetics" of a Universe. What many scientists believe is the combination between two Universes' create a set of "genes" that define the traits of the child parallel Universe. I believe this is personally too human-like and most likely cannot be proven. The parallel Universe theory, m-theory, has been tied in with String Theory. I have been trying to figure out how a Universe in a singularity (after it recollapses can alter its laws of physics)

But a even bigger problem lies in front of me. Our Universe we live in is believe to overcome the forces of gravity and never recondense into a singularity. This may disrupt the cycle of one Universe theory.

I could show you what I have so far, Maarten, if you like. But I may have to upload a pic from my notebook. If we can get a good start on this, we may get this under wraps together in the future.

So the Noxtantial M-theory will become a reality after all?

And yes, I just checked, singularities are indeed covered by the insurance company.

Well, it will, but I would prefer to have my real name with the theory.

I will copy + paste my work here and we both can continue and scrutinize it. Though I cannot do that now as I have dozens of huge tests in the next few days and do not have the time to scramble together my notes. If I get a snow day off, I can do it.

BTW, nice one on the insurance coverage.

Yeah good idea, (I would also prefer my real name, it might sound stupid though).

Take it easy, and make sure you pass those tests with maximum results. If you fail because of me I will turn Emo lol.

This topic should be renamed to "The Make Yourself Fail" thread. Why? It makes me think I fail after seeing all this shit I don't understand. =(

As long as your failing doesn't turn into a sigularity and happens to kill the server, I don't care lolz.

Btw Nox, time paradoxes

You cannot intentionally change the past, for if you achieve your goal, you would not have travelled back into the past to achieve it and therefore your action did not take place.

You cannot affect your own life, or any other event leading to your birth. Killing yourself, or preventing yourself from being born will prevent you from going into the past and ending your life. Therefor, the mistake you made is rectified.

Do you see my logic (we had like a 50 minute debate in class today when we were working on our Practical Assignment (guess the subject I chose..) and hardly anyone agreed with me. Well two did in the end, after a long discussion).

Okay, first of all I aced all my tests.

And that time discussion. Do you remember my theory on the matter? That not only would a time device have to somehow reconfigure the flow of time, but since time is relative to space, you must put all the matter back in the right place, including yourself to truely have time travel. If a machine achieves this, nothing will happen. Say we have a rubber band that is stretched. Say on one end we have time and on the other we have space. If we stretch time (analogous to changing the flow of time) and try to time travel, (i.e. letting the rubber band go)
it will snap back into place. Time&Space will revert back say twenty years and continue on the same course. So in the eyes of the people making the device, nothing happens. But, if you do somehow take out the matter you were made of before you were born and swapped it in with the matter you are composed of now, then it would work. But you would be destroying the present and creating a new one. You COULD shoot your father because you exist as matter in the past not in the future. MYSTERY SOLVED.

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This topic should be renamed to "The Make Yourself Fail" thread. Why? It makes me think I fail after seeing all this shit I don't understand. =(

Watch the programs on the history & science channel. That old Kaku will help you out.

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As long as your failing doesn't turn into a sigularity and happens to kill the server, I don't care lolz.

EPIC PHYSICS JOKE FTW!!!!

Finally, that theory we discussed. I found my notebook but discovered it was part of my earlier works dealing with how parallel Universe could actually have genetic traits defining their laws and how they are parallel. String theory in my eyes is useless, but I may be able to adapt my theory into a new one.

We discussed the laws, and physics "traits" of our Universe. Are we assuming our Universe is the only one and has been collapsing and expanding continuously? Or are we talking about multiple Universes. (I have nothing against multiple Universes, just parallel ones and that idiotic string theory)

I don't know, if there even are other universes, we probably wouldn't be able to see them unless we managed to travel outside of the dimensions.

I also cannot see how you can kill your dad that way. (That theory DOES sort of clear up the intentional part).
If you go back and time and somehow kill your dad before you were conceived/sired w/e then how could you have existed in the first place? Thus, how could you have gone back in time and kill your dad?

So that means we are going to start our theory with the assumption that our Universe is the only one. If that does not work out, we can adapt our theories for multiple Universes.

Let's start with the scenario of the Big Bang. All the forces are combined. (Possible God or Mother Particle) time is running all over the place, all the matter is contained in the singularity.

I have an idea. Let's assume that there is a mother particle that "gave birth" to all elementary particles we know. I have a theory that the gravitons, photons, taus, if combined, will form a new particle. Wild idea, but it has potential to be right. Hell, that's what happens in physics.

Perhaps the strength and "type" of the forces originate from the way the mother particle was split apart. But a troubling thought comes into mind. That even if their is only one Universe, then it is most likely that the singularity (if it did not come from God) existed in a different form before that one. The specific thing about that (if it is true) is we physicists must theorize a theory of everything from a middle beginning.

Also, on the time travel thing, did you not read the specific concepts of my theory? Time and space must be returned to the previous placement. If you somehow altered the positioning of the rest of the matter and avoided doing the same to yourself, nothing would happen in your eyes because you are only altering the time around yourself personally. But there is another option. If you collected all the data that makes you, you (assuming we have no soul) then you could implant that into the matter that will eventually become you, so you can walk around in the past. Once you do that, you cease to become a direct pathway of that timeline. Your father of that time line was not the one of the previous time line. Your origin would not be from a father but the instance you "beamed" yourself into matter in the time altered time period. So, in effect, you could shoot your father, because he would not really be your father, even though he would be exactly like him.

This would be called not time travel, but time alteration. You could do whatever you want and change the time-line, but as I previously stated, your technology needs to be pretty damn advanced to do so. But if you screw something up, make sure you save the coordinates of time flow and matter placement for the preferable Universe. Otherwise, you may find yourself in a scenario like Back to the Future.

Ah, that's a bit clearer. But the guy created in the past would not be you, so technically you don't kill your dad.

But still, if that other you kills your dad won't it prevent you from being born and thus prevent you from beaming you information into the past?

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Ah, that's a bit clearer. But the guy created in the past would not be you, so technically you don't kill your dad.

Exactly. So, you would actually be killing yourself and making a type of copy to stroll around in the past.

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But still, if that other you kills your dad won't it prevent you from being born and thus prevent you from beaming you information into the past?

No, because the real you, and the very reality you live in will be terminated and the time of the Universe wil be set to before you were born. The timeline will continue in the same rate as it did in the past. The other you will have his origin in THAT TIMELINE. Once you arrange the matter in that Universe, I believe the origin of that other you will be the time he was FORMED in that timeline, not exactly when you BEAMED him in. So, if he kills your dad, he will still be there because he was formed in that Universe and all ties to the original you are gone.
Actually, this theory may lead to interesting discoveries about the Big Bang.

Also, any thoughts on our first theory?

The multiverse theory? No.

But thanks for clearing that up about the time travel. You will be quoted in my school project.

Not the multi-verse one. The theory we were supposed to develop together, remember?

Well, I am applying our time discussion to our theory. What if there is one Universe that has been expanding and recollapsing, acting as a circle of life for our Universe. But, scientists today have concluded that the expansion of the Universe will result in the "big tear" tearing the fabric of space time. I hypothize when that happens, space will become almost completely pulled away from time. But, as I stated before, imagine space & time being part of one rubber band. As they are stretched apart, the will shoot back at each other. I believe this may cause time (not back to the time our Universe began, for this will be a different one) to force the Universe back to the period of the big bang. It wouldn't be time travel, just the Universe resetting itself. I believe anything would and could be different, and that is the premise of our theory. How laws in the reformed Universe change relative to those before it?

Also, for the assignment, get an A on it, or I will feel like a total douche.
I am thinking about what we discussed here in the next issue of the school newspaper (already have a physics/computer science discussion there)

ALSO, BIG SCIENTIFIC UPDATE (I AM WRITING IN ALL CAPS TO CONTAIN MY EXCITEMENT) NASA HAS DISCOVERED A POCKET OF METHANE GAS OVER THE SURFACE OF MARS. THERE ARE ONLY TWO OPTIONS TO WHAT THIS COULD BE. (alright, that is enough of caps for a while) One, it could be a volcano we have not discovered yet. Two, a large life form or microbial ones that are emitting methane as they normally do on Earth.

About the rubber band part, if you keep on stretching it, it will snap at some point. But I think we're heading in the wrong direction by clinging onto the rubber band. I don't know where I read it, but somewhere it stated that the universe would have to expand at something *10^66 to overcome the gravitational force. Seeing as the galaxies are moving at light speed now, perhaps the singularity is slowly pulling the matter back in. (just a wild guess there though).

My money is on the microbial life forms, we've seen enough of those on Mars (mostly fossilized) and I don't believe they would have missed something as big as an active volcano. An active volcano could actually be good, perhaps if there is one, there might some life to found in the vicinity. (hell, perhaps there is a whole advanced race, clinging onto that volcano to support them idfk).

If time was created by the big bang, then yes, a time tear is possible. What the effect of this phenomenon would be, we do not know. Perhaps, at a certain moment, the outer layer of the universe simply rips off and becomes a doughnut universe (if it does not reset itself) of its own.

Scrap that.. that would mean that time would become more stretched for the remaining universe.

If time was already present before the big bang, then the time and space would not be affected by the growth of the universe. Time and space could then theoretically infinite or limited. If the universe grows until those boundaries, it could be possible that the universe resets or matter is redirected to the singularity from it originally came from. Thereby creating an endless universe. (another wild guess, but that's what we have to do in order to get somewhere).

Any preference as to how I will call you in the project? Noxstant, your real name or some alias?

How about an 10 (100%/A+) for the project?

Also, good luck on getting the discussion into the school newspaper. (be sure to send me a digital copy of that part 'k? ^_^

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About the rubber band part, if you keep on stretching it, it will snap at some point. But I think we're heading in the wrong direction by clinging onto the rubber band. I don't know where I read it, but somewhere it stated that the universe would have to expand at something *10^66 to overcome the gravitational force. Seeing as the galaxies are moving at light speed now, perhaps the singularity is slowly pulling the matter back in. (just a wild guess there though).

Yeah, I kind of had my own doubts about the rubber band. Scrap that idea. But it was only an example, and my theory still remains that the three space dimensions must be altered in synch with the alteration of the time dimension.

Galaxies are being pulled in by gravity. The singularity does not exist at the moment. It does exist, however, in radio waves and such.
Dark energy is the theorized force that is expanding the Universe and combating gravity.

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My money is on the microbial life forms, we've seen enough of those on Mars (mostly fossilized) and I don't believe they would have missed something as big as an active volcano. An active volcano could actually be good, perhaps if there is one, there might some life to found in the vicinity. (hell, perhaps there is a whole advanced race, clinging onto that volcano to support them idfk).

Fossils on Mars? I am pretty sure we have found nothing of the sort. Perhaps you are referring to a rock that some peole theorized that it came from Mars and hit the Earth and was contaminated. We have not found life directly on any other solar body besides ours. I hold doubts about NASA blindly missing a volcano. I would like it to be life, microbial or not. NASA has been talking about some weird process rocks could be emitting methane. That sounds a bit shady to me. As for an advanced species, I doubt they could be more advanced than an Earth Sponge. I will be watching the NASA channel everyday from now on.

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If time was created by the big bang, then yes, a time tear is possible. What the effect of this phenomenon would be, we do not know. Perhaps, at a certain moment, the outer layer of the universe simply rips off and becomes a doughnut universe (if it does not reset itself) of its own.

Scrap that.. that would mean that time would become more stretched for the remaining universe.

If time was already present before the big bang, then the time and space would not be affected by the growth of the universe. Time and space could then theoretically infinite or limited. If the universe grows until those boundaries, it could be possible that the universe resets or matter is redirected to the singularity from it originally came from. Thereby creating an endless universe. (another wild guess, but that's what we have to do in order to get somewhere).

See, what I was thinking is that linear time does not really begin or end. It is a false perception that linear time is not infinite. Imagine this, the Universe has been recondensing or tearing, either one, an infinite amount of times and reconfiguring itself to a different format. Because when you are in the singularity, time runs rapidly. There is no time outside the singularity. Everything is contained in the singularity.

And for the donut idea, I think all 4 dimensions (x,y,z,t) will be ripped apart at the same time. I believe they all have the same stress fracture minimum value.

As for resetting the matter, that implies that there is some intelligence controlling the Universe, which is more towards the notion of a God. But at least it would not be the fairy-tale biblical one.

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Any preference as to how I will call you in the project? Noxstant, your real name or some alias?

Check your pm inbox.

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How about an 10 (100%/A+) for the project?

Make me proud.

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Also, good luck on getting the discussion into the school newspaper. (be sure to send me a digital copy of that part 'k? ^_^

Should be about a month or two. The article I wrote for this edition still has not came out yet. But I'll send it to you, via direct scan off the newspaper.

Returning to the old subject, I cannot see how the Mother Particle is a feasible idea. First of all, what would cause it to split if it's the only particle present. Unless it is a highly unstable particle, there's no way that would have happened. Second, where would that single particle come from?

You must remember that the mother particle would form ONLY when the Universe is recollapsed into a singularity. That would mean gravitons (theoretically) + photons (electromagnetic) + tau + the other nuclear force particle. As you stated earlier, a new set of laws of physics would form in the singularity. Perhaps in the singularity the laws of physics become turned off. The trick to seeing if this theory is plausible is seeing if one can come up with a way to find out what the past Universe was right using the data we have now. (kinda like looking at the genes of a child produced by a hermaphroditic parent)

There's one problem with the graviton, it is believed that it has a mass of 0. How could that be coming from a mother particle?

Hmmm. That is true. But look at the photon. It has no mass, but a lot of energy. (I think)

How about this : Gravity was the force created when all the forces came together. And when the mother particle was split by a time fluctuation, the resulting release of the explosion could have produced an "Empty-shell" mother particle that has been drastically altered by having an almost zero number of particles. That would explain the weakness of gravity and perhaps why gravity is all over the space-time continuum. But take note this is a wild idea, but that is what we must do to find the truth.

How about splitting down the mother particle into several sub particles.
This would include highmassed particles and lowmassed particles.

Lowmassed particles would be the particles providing the spin, when the mothers were split apart, the low massed particles also formed one with a mass which is extremly low or non existent. This could lead to the graviton.

The problem we are facing here is our current knowledge, we do not know every single quantum particle that exists so it would be impossible for us to create an (accurate) picture of the so called mother particle. Perhaps there is another particle which brings in a whole new factor that needs to be thought off.

We are talking about the forces particles specifically for now, and all of those have been confirmed besides the graviton.

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Lowmassed particles would be the particles providing the spin, when the mothers were split apart, the low massed particles also formed one with a mass which is extremly low or non existent. This could lead to the graviton.

So this would also mean that the nuclear forces + electromagnetism account for the spin of a particle. And the forces would be strongest in the mother particle, so, what I am saying is this is what might have led to spin. But that really does not explain how the graviton physically works. Unless the differences in the massed particles, which you mentioned, created a polar region of attraction between the graviton (combined forces + decay of mother particle) and the space-time continuum. Wait, perhaps the gravitons are in the space-time continuum deeper, and so when a mass is placed on it, the greater the mass, the more gravitons are released to pull the space-time continuum, which functions as the gravity we know, onto the large mass warping space. I think we may be on to something here.

I have done some pondering of this theory and I have come to the conclusion that for this to work, there must be a particle that travels at the speed of light. Or in other words, is unaffected by time. Kind of like the tachyons in Star Trek. Since the big bang is the opposite of the Universe condensing, the particles would be reset to initial status. So perhaps gravity is something far stranger than we once thought. Or this theory is wrong. One or the other.

Tachyon is actually already beyond startrek, scientists have been speculating about the existence of such a particle for some time now. I don't see how you come up with the idea of that particle, what made you think about that.

An another note, the Tachyon is the only hypothesized particle that actually travels FASTER than light.
If you use speed from the fourth dimension to move in the other three, wouldn't that lead to a negative time speed for particles that go FTL? That would lead to particles younger than the universe.

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Tachyon is actually already beyond startrek, scientists have been speculating about the existence of such a particle for some time now.

Yes, that is true. But the tachyon has remained just THAT : speculation. There is really nothing depending on it to exist so far.

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I don't see how you come up with the idea of that particle, what made you think about that.

Remember when we discussed the big bang was really just time travel backwards from a singularity? I.E. everything goes back to the way it was because it was. And that has always stuck a pin in the theory that the Universe continually dies and is reborn through some strange time loop. I came with this idea because I am assuming gravity, once the mother particle is no more, left over force particles that do not exactly fall under the catergory of photons, gluons, or bosons combine with already existing particles to become gravitons. The problem is when would this reaction occur? And this would mean that somehow the gravitons would have to be retracted when the Universe recollapses. Or perhaps the graviton is the result of constant interaction between mediator particles and tachyons and when the mediators are gone, no gravitons are produced. Though I can't see how such an interaction could happen ATM, but give me a week or two and I will come up with some explanation.

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An another note, the Tachyon is the only hypothesized particle that actually travels FASTER than light.
If you use speed from the fourth dimension to move in the other three, wouldn't that lead to a negative time speed for particles that go FTL? That would lead to particles younger than the universe.

Well, there are other particles in Star Trek that travel faster than light. I believe tetryon and whatnotl all that subspace junk. And what do you mean by using the fourth dimension to mobe something? The fourth dimension is the time dimension and is not a physical dimension.

Been giving this theory some thought. What if when the Universe collapses into a singularity, the photons interact with the tachyons. And the current value + value of the tachyons determines the speed of light. And this energy warp (whatever you want to call it) causes energy to break free in infinite volume. It is my theory that this energy has the effects of gravity. So yes, it would be composed of gravitons.

Right now I have a simple theory, but I can't seem to get the units of measurement equal to check it or not.

g = c(2)
------
H

g = gravitional constant

C(2) = the speed of light squared

H = the hubble constant

If I could configure the measurements, and if I received the correct Gravitional constant of the current Universe, then my theory would be somewhat confirmed.